Animals are not ours to eat, wear, experiment on, use for entertainment, or abuse in any other way.

Tax Meat!

Written by PETA | January 3, 2008

Tax_meat.gif

Someone should probably tell this pig and cow that they’re not going to win any elections if their only platform is raising taxes, but the argument is a solid one: In addition to being a leading cause of global warming, meat causes cancer and heart disease—driving health-care costs through the roof. Alcohol, tobacco, and gasoline are subject to a “sin” tax, so meat should be too. We’re asking congress to tax meat at 10 cents per pound to offset its staggering costs, and these two have been following the presidential candidates all around the campaign trail to make that point. In a Mustang Convertible, which gives the whole thing a bit of flair. This pic’s from one of the Iowa stops:

Tax_Meat_outside_the_Blogger_Bash.jpg

Related Posts

Respond

Comments

Post a Comment

If your comment doesn't appear right away, please be patient as it may take some time to publish or may require moderation.

By submitting this form, you are agreeing to our collection, storage, use, and disclosure of your personal info in accordance with our privacy policy as well as to receiving e-mails from us.

  • Maya, CVT says:

    Hi Kurt! Anytime. I have equal respect for you and Antigone. Being here and having this conversation will make all 3 of us think and act more responsibly I beleive. I beleive we are all responsible for our actions. Whether it’s showing people more respect or showing more respect to the other animals on the Earth by changing our habits we can ALL do better! Om Shanti. Peace

  • Antigone1000 says:

    Kurt K You call ME mean?? Look at the slaughterhouse video and know that YOU cause that to happen. Of course you don’t kill animalsyou have someone else do it for you!! So I guess to mean and selfish we can add cowardly. You really need to grow up. If you are truly on this site to learn and not just to argue aquaint yourself with the true facts as portrayed in the videos and quit whining about other people not liking you.

  • Kurt K says:

    Who says I don’t show compassion? I don’t beat animals I don’t kill animals for the fun of it. You are just a mean person!

  • Antigone1000 says:

    Kurt Stop complaining because you feel I do not show you enough understandingcompassionwhatever you want to call it. As long as you do not show compassion to others you have no right to the expectation of receiving it.

  • Antigone1000 says:

    Maya You are entitled to your opinion. I just ask that you do not pass yourself off as an Animal Rights person because you know nothing about Animal Rights. Your comprehension stops at Animal Welfare. I do not want anyone to associate Animal Rights with a lackluster attitude like your own.

  • Kurt K says:

    Maya I going to start calling you mom! Thanks for sticking up for me in my absence. You made many good points in that last post. I wouldn’t exactly call myself the greenest person on the block but I do make a conscious effort help the environment whenever I get a chance. I reycyle all products that can be recycled and I walk to work everyday. I’m just about the biggest treehugging conservative that I know! Now that is an oxymoron! Antigone I don’t get upset about your comments towards me. I’m a big boy I can take it. I’m just trying to understand how one person can so despise another without ever meeting them. You’ve called a “lowlife” in your last post and even worse things in the past. I just don’t understand how such an “enlightened” person can be filled with so much hate!

  • Maya, CVT says:

    Hi again Antigone I think the word “Doctrine” is perfect for PETA folks because of its cultish implications. You are in deep denial if you think you’re a complete saint. Do you drive a car? Then you’re killing polar bears. Do you drink water? Many reservoir management programs require that waterfowl near drinking supplies be shot. Do you use electricity? Are you aware that great horned and short eared owls are killed by electrocution from power lines? Do you heat your home? The Prince William Sound oil spill was not the only such disaster in history. There have been many since. The last oil spill happened 12 hours ago in Roanoake. A dead duck and muskrat were found and many more are expected to be found deceased since the oil spill occured in a wildlife refuge. Or are you only advocating for the cute cows and puppies? If you care about our wildlife friends you will realize that you are every bit as guilty as Kurk. Vegetarianism is only a sliver of benefit in the huge ugly world of industrialization. All of us are guilty as sin and you know it. Have some humility there doc. See I’m not afraid of offending people.

  • Antigone1000 says:

    Maya One of the biggest roadblocks to animal rights is the inability of the “animal people” to hold consistently to one doctrine. When I advocate on behalf of the animals using the PETA doctrine to which I adhere you call it mean. It is simply reality. Although I do not hate all people I have very little respect for those who can witness slaughterhouse video and believe it to be justified. I think those are the lowest lifeforms on the planet and could care less what they think of me. I am writing here on behalf of the animals and their suffering. It is laughable to me that someone like Kurt gets all upset over my comments while he is writing in support of animal cruelty. If he thinks my comments are too harsh he should trade places with a pig in a slaughterhouse so he can really understand what harsh means.

  • Maya, C.V.T. says:

    LOL well geez my mom always said she loves my mediocre comments I hope she wasn’t just saying that to make me feel better! I’m actually really surprised at your comment that’s all you say to your meat eating friends? That’s quite judicious I expected something a bit more harsh. I think it’s a very understanding response. By being direct but not mean your freinds will probably continue to have dinner with you. Will that guarantee they will go vegetarian? No but it’s our best chance don’t you think?? Antigone I probably should not have said I was okay with people eating meat. But sometimes when I’m on here I feel like we are going to lose people like Kurt and CC who might change their minds. Antigone why the hell would they be on the PETA blog if they weren’t on the fence? If they were just here to be jerks they would ALWAYS post nasty comments. I haven’t seen that. And trust me I am not afraid of offending people. I am not afraid of being unpopular. I regret that you and I cannot meet so you can know the real me. But I do not say nasty things lightly. I am not a people hater and I practice Buddhism so using cruel words is always a last resort for me. Everyone is different some people I’ve spoken to have seen videos like that and question their authenticity. So a different approach is needed. The best way for animal rights activists to use their time is to POLL vegetarians and FIND OUT why they stopped eating meat!!!!! Let me give you an example I was 14 and I loved animals already. A celebrity I admired did an interview about how he became vegetarian and I followed his lead. I never say any PETA videos and I’ve been veggie ever since. What if we polled people and 99 percent were influenced by celebrities wouldn’t that be worth knowing?

  • Antigone1000 says:

    Maya Thank you for yet again telling me all the great things you accomplish for animals. And I am sure you have done some good. However if you truly want to advocate for animal RIGHTS you need to stick to your position ALWAYS and not waiver in the face of unpopularity. If a friend of mine asks me if his ordering meat is going to bother me I NEVER say I have no problem with it. I say that although I would prefer it if no one ate meat I realize that some people do and I leave it at that. The fact is that not everyone is going to go vegetarian no matter what you saydo so abandoning AR values to make them feel better about their choices is not really helpful. If Kurt has viewed any videos and is still on the fence about going veg then he is probably not worth a whole lot of effort. You are either someone who gets it or you are not. Some people are only on here to argue Chris Cochran. Do you really think CC will ever go veg even with your best mediocre comments??

  • Maya, C.V.T. says:

    Okay Antigone I won’t issue an apology. And I also won’t beleive that you’ve ever gotten someone like Kurt to go vegetarian with your supposedly brilliant approach. But my boyfriend and sister are vegetarians they said it was because of me. And Kurt seems to be listening to my point of view whereas you’re just driving him away. I don’t see how your presence here has ever made a dent.

  • Antigone1000 says:

    From you to Kurt on February 1 2008 under the article about how eating meat can cause impotence “I don’t have a problem with people eating meat!” No one needs your apology. You are so quick to tell us all the good things you do for animals and I am merely pointing out something you habitually do that hurts them. As an animal welfarist you certainly help some individual animals but you will never alter the status quo because you are too afraid of being unpopular. You can’t even risk offending someone on this blog so I can’t imagine you are very effective in person. As for how I was raisedI was raised to use my senses and my conscience to recognize what is right instead of relying on status quo or someone else’s opinion. You seem to think that sugarcoating things is better because it is less offensive. The only thing you accomplish is to make people feel better about the minute courtesies they show to animals instead of setting forth an expectation for something better. At the end of the day I care more about what is morally right in relation to animals than whether or not I may have offended somebody’s sensibilities by forcing them to see reality instead of their sugarcoated version of it.

  • Maya, C.V.T. says:

    Hi Antigone! I’m afraid you’re twisting my words again. Try to listen to me this time. 1. I never never never said eating meat was okay. Find the date and location of that quote and I’ll apologize. I said that I was glad that farm animals could potentially be treated better. Those statements are completely different. 2. I never said you were mean. I said you were harsh. I don’t know who raised you and taught you manners but I’m not coddling Kurt. I’m showing common politeness. I’ve spent my life helping animals directly as a vet nurse shelter worker wildlife rehabber and conservation biologist. Just because I post an opinion on this blog that you disagree with does not negate 30 plus years of helping animals. No disrespect intended!

  • antigone1000 says:

    Maya If Kurt wants someone to coddle him then he can post on an animal welfare site. If he is on here and talking to me then he is going to get the ugly truth. I find it funny that you guys complain about how mean I am. Look what you condone in slaughterhouseshim by eating meat you by telling people that eating meat is okay. Who is really the mean one here? And as for animal welfare Maya unless you stick to your guns and insist that ALL animals be given their due consideration not just those YOU consider worthy then you have done the greatest disservice to the cause of all animals by confirming a human being’s right to choose which animals he will treat well and which he will not.

  • Maya, CVT says:

    Antigone Although I do help animals although just barely LOL I don’t mind criticism at all as long as it is given respectfully. And you did comment with respect so I appreciate that. I’m livid as well about pet overpopulation we have over 2000 strays in every single town in Massachusetts and all shelters ones where I’ve worked ever do is kill them. The strays get euthanized while the breeder’s purebreds and kittens and puppies fill up the shelters and get adopted right away. It makes me sick. Meanwhile my nokill a house clean with lots of room takes in AIDS and leukemia infected cats and we spend a fortune caring for them. It’s an ugly situation. Anyway I am disgusted with that situation and I completely agree that a halfassed attitude toward animal rights is no good at all. But two things 1. I define animal welfare as people who refuse to commit vile acts. Breaking windows or breaking down doors to save an animal great! Breaking the law fine! But arson viscious teasing rudeness assault those things do not save lives. It drives people away. 2. Being polite to Kurt will get you further than being mean. I think you have been fairly polite but quite harsh. I just believe in being more diplomatic. We don’t have to be sarcastic or rude in order to insisit on saving all animals. Peace!

  • Antigone1000 says:

    Kurt K You just said ityou argue for the fun of it. While you do that animals die in reality. I’m glad you can enjoy bantering about their suffering. I am not really interested in changing everyone’s mind. After all not everyone was in agreement about ending slavery but it ended didn’t it?? It took a war and there are still people who are unhappy with the outcome but too bad. Far too often the selfish and meanspirited are in a position of power. Hopefully the good people who truly support the rights of animals to live the lives they were given will triumph in the not too distant future.

  • Antigone1000 says:

    Maya Although I don’t like to criticize anyone who helps animals however slightly I truly believe that an animalwelfarist attitude does more harm than good for the cause of animals. In all the time the animal welfare groups have been working on the fairly noncontroversial issue of pet overpopulation has it gotten any better? Nobecause they won’t offend the breeders by fighting for spayneuter legislation and they won’t offend anyone by suggesting that ALL animals deserve respect not just dogs and cats. What does that tell people? If I can decide what animals are worthy of consideration so can anyone else. I can hardly force you to respect the animals I care about dogs while not respecting those you care about pigs. In a nutshellanimal welfare does not help animals. It just lets people think they have done something good when in fact they have only done the minimum that should be expected of them.

  • Kurt K says:

    Anitgone Crawling forward is better than a standstill. Everytime you insult people like me believe me I am towards the middle on this issue you anger many more than you think. Just remember there are many more blue colar rural folk in this country than you think. These people make the wheels turn in this country. You may convince some people living on the coast to change but the heartland is going to take some negociating. If you insult their way of life then you are fighting a lost cause. The difference bt you and me is you think you no what is best for others people and don’t listen to peoples thoughts unless the are along the exact same lines as yours. I thought you would be happry to hear that I reject unecessary violence towards animals. But since I eat meat I’m sure you could never like me as a person even though you don’t know me at all. What do you think could we ever be friends if we met by chance? Could you look past the fact that I have different beliefs? Do you judge everybody you meet by what kind of food they eat? A couple of my friends are vegan they don’t belittle me for eating a steak from time to time. We have our discussions and argue for the fun of it but in the end we stay friends. If you can’t look past peoples food choices then you have a lot of hate in you! And you call me the ugly one?

  • Maya, CVT says:

    Antigone with all due respect do you want to save acutal animals or do you just want to pick on someone? What scientific study can you cite which proves that people who ease into animal rights will not become vegetarians? You are chasing away people whose minds could potentially be changed and that kills animals. If eveyone in America went vegetarian 5 times a week it would save billions more animals than just a small percent of the population being vegan. Don’t you care about saving actual lives? Would you really chase away someone who is suggesting they may try vegeatrianism?

  • Antigone1000 says:

    Kurt K If you want to crawl I suggest you post on an animal welfare site not an animal rights site. Animal welfarists will sacrifice animals in order not to offend humans. While you sit around scratching your head about what you feel you can and cannot live with in your torturefree life how many animals die? That is of no consequence to you clearly but of the gravest consequence to the animals.

  • Kurt K says:

    Maya I agree 100 about what the chef says. I don’t like seeing cows or any animals for that matter suffering. I would love to see all the resturants go with humanely raised beef chicken pork etc. He is right I don’t want the meat I eat to come from a cow that can’t stand or may be tainted from constant filth. Most of the beef that I consome comes from a local processing plant where I can assure you it is humane. Thanks for showing me that link. I also agree that humans haven’t been the best friend to dear ole mother earth. But we are trying to correct that trend. Humans did most of the damage when the environment was not a priority a time when studies on the envronment were very rare. I am encouraged today by some of the steps being taken towards a cleaner planet. I know it may not be moving as fast as we want but it is moving in the right direction at least. I can see your perspective on the word “dominion”. When I say we have dominon over animals I never meant that we can do anything we want to them bacause we rule them. I think I trying to say something along the lines that though we rule over them we still have to respect them. We may have to kill them for our wellbeing but always in a respectful and humane manner. Nature conservation is very important to me. I definitely want my children to grow up in a world where they can experience nature in all its beauty. I don’t like suffering but I am not against eating meat. Contradictory I don’t think so. The problem is that many PETA followers see things only in black and white. If I don’t agree 100 with their beliefs I get demonized and ridiculed. I think you know a little about that sometimes. PETA needs to understand that you have to learn how to crawl before you can run!

  • Maya, CVT says:

    ps By the way Kurt my sincere apology for the obscenities in the first blog post I just think he is relatable because he is a butcher thus more beleiveable.

  • Maya, CVT says:

    Hi again Kurt! Don’t ever let people here tell you who you are or that you’re not a good person. You’re obviously very open minded kind and seriously brave for facing a different point of view. Despite the vitrol on the PETA site I’m sure most agree with you it’s not the people who are bad but instead their actions. I’m concerned that people who pay animal industries are turning a blind eye to the extreme suffering of animals. Unfortunately PETA’s extremism sometimes makes it more easy to ignore animal suffering. I have some links to demonstrate my point I’m not trying to be obnoxious by pointing you to websites it’s just that I think they say volumes that I couldn’t say on my own! Here is a link this guy was on a Food Network competition he loves meat more than anything in the world. He works with it as a chef. Check out what he has to say on this post of his. httpwww.offalgood.comsiteblogresourcesthisischeapmeat I think that humans are unique as well but if I’m judging stricly on actions we are the only animal that does not contribute to the ecosystem indeed we are destroying our planet. Here are two more links these are Evangelical groups who beleive that “Dominion” in the Bible means stewardship protection of the earth and animals. httpwww.christiansandclimate.org httpwww.creationcare.org I guess what I’m trying to say is yes humans are very unique we have very powerful talents and abilities. We have the ability to make the world better and examine many philosophies and moral values. The more we can use critical thought to understand our fellow earthlings and show “Dominion” over them in the form of stewardship and a protective attitude the better we will be. Blessings to you!

  • Antigone1000 says:

    Kurt K You would turn your back on a true friend because of his species. That is a great tribute to humanitywe would save the lowest human over an animal. We would save the life of a human in a vegetative state over a monkey who can communicate with sign language. That is completely ridiculous. As for the Biblekeep in mind that it was written by HUMANS. However inspired all authors write from their own perspectives and biases.

  • Kurt K says:

    How do you know the correct answer? You value the lives of animals over your own kind. You speak with such certainty about animals. For things that don’t have a voice you seem to able to communicate with them quite effectively. You ask why did God make animals feel pain? Why did he make them at all? And if you think that God views animals in the same light as humans then I don’t know how anybody can have a constructive conversation with you. If you think the thought process of animals are even remotely as complex as that of a humans then I don’t know what to tell you. You can live in your fantasy world. “If God truly intended us to treat animals as we do why did He give them the ability to feel pain?” Without pain how do you think people and animals learn. I know you don’t learn everything through pain but you learn quite a bit from pain. When you are hungry it hurts you eat it goes away. Fire burns you so you don’t touch it! Pain has to exist otherwise humans and animals wouldn’t know their limits and injure or possibly kill themselves. On to God now. You can interpret the Bible however you want. But the Bible never says God created animals in his image now does it. I’m not aware of any scriptures in the Bible or teachings from Jesus that says don’t eat animals. I guess the “Fishes and Loaves” story is made up as well because Jesus woulldn’t eat fish or kill them for that matter. No I don’t think Jesus would be impressed with what goes on inside a slaughterhouse. Hell I’m not either. The last thing I want to watch is a cow being slaughtered. It is not a pleasant sight and definitely not for weak stomach. And I’m sure your dog would give his life to save yours but then again dogs are very domesticated. I bet your cat could give two shits about you if you got attacked. I still can’t believe you would save your dogs life over a strangers life! That really bothers me. I don’t care if my worst enemy and my dog were in trouble at the same time I would help my enemy first. I’m very sure that is what the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit would want me to do…

  • Antigone1000 says:

    Kurt K I don’t think Jesus would look very highly on discrimination based solely on race gender or SPECIES or that He would impressed by what goes in a slaughterhouse but you think what you like. All I know is that my dog would have given his life to save mine wo hesitation. If given the choice I would save his over the life of a human I do not know. Why should I value his lovefriendship any less because he is not a human? Most humans interpret the phrase “made in God’s image” to somehow mean that God looks like a human. That is completely ridiculous. “Made in God’s image” means in a spiritual sense not a physical sense. If God truly intended us to treat animals as we do why did He give them the ability to feel pain? The ability to feel love? The ability to appreciate family ties? Do you really believe Him to be that cruel? Or more likely is it that we are too stupid to understand that “God’s image” is NOT a reference to physical appearance??? I’m pretty sure I know the correct answer…….

  • Kurt K says:

    Maya you perspective on this subject is refreshing to me at least your responses show respect. You don’t get angry when people have a different point of view and you never resort to negative assumptions about another person. Michelle and Antigone have it in their minds that I am an horrible person that wishes death upon animals just for spite. In actuality that couldn’t be farther from the truth. As I have pointed out many times I don’t really comment on posts about the fur industry or other instances where animals are treated cruely. I am against cruelty towards animals just for cruelty. I think people who do things like that are just mean spirited. But I also don’t think hunters fishermen and slaughter house workers are bad people. You pointed out that some people are cruel to their children and others. My beliefs tell me that they will have to answer for their sins one day. God knows who is truely bad and who has a good heart. I believe 90 of humanity has a good heart and the 10 that don’t make us look really bad sometimes. Whether you are an animal lover or not you have to agree that humans are the most unique of all Gods creations. We humans are given free will it is an incredible freedom and yet a very heavy burden. We must choose to be righteous or to be deviant. Isn’t that kind of the point of humanity? Be worthy of God’s mercy and love or suffer an eternity in hell. That is another reason I come on the site. I believe that some of the things PETA does for attention is less then righteous. Then the PETA supports hide behind the idea that anyway to get reconition is okay. Another thing. I still don’t see how animals killing animals is okay but humans killing animals for food is so wrong. I’m going to need more than stretched theories on animal feelings and the opinions of biased people to convert me to the “darkside”had to throw in the Star Wars reference. So far Maya you are the only one coming close to educating me. Thanks for respecting my opinions and for listening.

  • Maya, CVT says:

    Hi Kurt! Thank you for clarifying your “man” statement I would not have misunderstood you but it sure is refreshing to see a man or anyone!! who is aware of sexism in our society! It’s one of my biggest pet peeves today! I’ve been accused in the past of sounding condescending Kurt so please don’t take this the wrong way I know you are every bit as intelligent and educated as I. But I have worked with animals my whole life I’m a CVT LWR and I’m in my second year of grad school for biology. I’m telling you right now you should have fired your biology teacher. They were obviously clueless. Much more so than humans most animals in the animal kingdom will lay down their lives for their offspring. How many examples do you want 10? 1000? 5000? I’ll give you all of them if you ask. My boyfriend and I were mountain biking a few years ago and we came down a steep hill. Suddenly 5 or 6 grouses ran in front of our bikes we nearly crashed!! They each had one wing spread out and were running in circles in front of our bikes!! I went home to read abou this phenomenon if a grouse sees a predator in order to distract it from the nest they will run in front of the predator and pretend to have a broken wing so the predator will kill them instead of finding the nest. As I said I can name a hundred or thousands more examples if you like. If you look at all the instances of parental child abuse neglect abortion etc etc I say we have a pretty impressive lead on the animal kingdom when it comes to not having a soul. I think it’s important to know it’s not a contest we have a higher moral reasoning than animals and we should use it. Animals must be understood on their own terms not ours. This is a great discussion and I hope it can continue!! By the way I have the utmost respect for a man who uses his religion to speak of love and who is also open minded in the way you are it sets a very good example! Peace!

  • Michele says:

    Kurt K if you have any shred of interest in reading some info that would tend to refute many of your comments from Feb. 26 you should read “The Pig Who Sang to the Moon” can’t remember the author offhand. It’s about the emotional intelligence of nonhuman animals and is a wonderful read. But I won’t hold out a lot of hope…

  • Michele says:

    Antigone and Maya thank you for your comments. Hopefully there are people reading this other than Kurt K who might actually be open to these concepts.

  • Kurt K says:

    Maya it is good to hear from you again. I think you helped my point a little bit with a statement that you made. You said that “man”when I say man I am not being sexist it is just a general term has moral reasoning man feels emotions and understands that pain is not only a physical feeling but an emotional one as well. I believe that our ability to distinguish bt right and wrong gives us a soul. That is why we are to “do unto others meaning man as they would do unto us.” The reason why human life is more precious than that of an animal is because of family. Not all but the overwhelming majority of humans don’t just produce offspring but aid in the development of their children. We don’t raise children until they can fend for themselves and let them go on by themselves. Humans never stop being parents the family bond is stronger than any bond that may exist in the animal kingdom. Human parents feel unconditional love for their children they would die defending them and would give anything for their wellbeing. I know some animals have what seem to be strong family ties but you will rarely see any beast defend their offspring to the death. Once a predator has the upper hand the parent will give up and reproduce again. I don’t believe animals have a ture sense of loss or any kind of sense of love. I think that is what the key word in my arguement is. Love! We humans have the ability to love not only our children but our parents relatives and friends. Most people will help a stranger in need risk their lives to help a complete stranger in peril and fight anybody or thing that threatens our exsitense. You can’t show me many cases when an animal has risked life and limb for another. I do agree with you that if someone attacked a pet of mine I would defend the pet not to the death of myself or the other person but I would do as much as possible to aid my pet. However on the other hand if I had a pet that attacked an unsuspecting person I wouldn’t hesitate to help that person no matter what the risk to my pet. Antigone stated that she would choose an animals life over mine if she had the choice I don’t think that is what Jesus would do and I am certain that God would frown upon that. Like I said in one of my last posts I derive most of my beliefs from my religon Catholicism. We believe man was made in Gods image. Therefore man’s life comes first in the hierarchy of life.

  • Antigone1000 says:

    Kurt K Noanimals do not commit acts of cruelty for the sake of being cruel only humans do that. Have you seen a video of adult human males clubbing baby seals to death for a fur that we do not need? If you were backed into a corner might you not fight to the death? It is not cruelty that makes one animal kill the offspring of another it is called survival and more accurately survival of the fittest. Animals understand that there is a limited amount of space on this planet. Humans have not yet grasped that so we think we can breed as much as we want wo regard to the effect on the earth or the other beings on it. Soin summary I guess animals are BOTH less cruel and more intelligent……

  • Maya, C.V.T. says:

    Hey you two! Far be it for me to interfere but I find this conversation interesting! I hope you don’t mind if I offer my opinion. Kurt I don’t usually go into “souls” or religion no offense at all to any religion but I prefer to stick to science since that’s my background. In a factual sense neither animals nor people may not have souls but BOTH have brains. That means that animals like humans can feel extreme pain terror loneliness and despair. I’m not trying to be soppy I’m just speaking of brain function. Animals that kill prey are not being cruel because they are not capable of a moral sense that is unique to humans. Moral reasoning is a very complex brain function and can be seen on an fMRI brain scan. Lions and other predators DO NOT have the abiltiy to empathize with their prey. Humans do. When I counsel people on cat behavior clients will sometimes say “my cat is being a snob”. This is not possible being a snob is actually a very complex thing LOL! So although we can project our idea of a lion being cruel it is not possible for a lion to internalize the feeling of another animal. Any affection between lions and offspring are a function of instinct and reproductive evolutionary success not of human like empathy. In regards to saving a human versus saving a dog of course if a pitbull was hurling towards my mom I would take out a shotgun no hesitiation and blow the dog’s brain out. If a person was to attack my cat unfortunately shooting them would land me in jail leaving my cat in a shelter so I would defend my cat with my life without killing another human. But let’s get real Kurt. That’s not likely to happen and that’s not what we’re discussing. What you’re saying is that spending time helping an animal is less important than saving humans. My question is what’s the logical reason why an animal’s life is less valuable than a human’s?

  • Kurt K says:

    What do you mean animals aren’t intentionally cruel? Have you watch wildlife documentaries? Have you ever seen the one that shows orcas tossing a baby seal with it’s tail over and over. It could kill it with one bite but it choose to play with it. Is that not cruel or is that part of the animals instincts. Violence is in all animals! Fight of flight it is as natural as the instinct to eat. Back a lion into a corner and it will kill whatever is in its way. It doesn’t reason with the other animal or person. It has two choices fight or run. Are you suggesting animals do not have hate for other animals? Humans and animals fight for the same reason! What is the one thing that has caused every major war in the past? Landterritory! An animal will fight for its land and so will a man. Man just has a little more gruesome way of doing so. And as far as animals not being cruel how do you explain infanticide? That act of a male animal killing the offspring of anogther male. Is this not cruel? Is this necessary? Animals are some of the most cruel creatures on the face of the earth. Granted some can tolerate each other but when it comes down to it animals fight jsut as much as we do. And its always about females and territory. Animals are ruthless killers. Have you ever seen the video of two male lions eating an injured female lioness? They could have protected here from hyienas or other predators but instead they killed then ate her. They actually started eating her before she was dead. Is that not cruel? Is that not torture?

  • Antigone1000 says:

    Kurt K Bottom line is you do not know whether or not they have souls but choose to act as though they do not so that you can mistreat them. As for whether I would choose btw a human or an animal it depends upon who we are talking about. If it is btw my mother and a stray dog I have never met I would choose my mother. If it was btw the cat who has lived with me for 14 years or you I would choose my cat. Only a human would turn his back on a true friend because of his species which is a despicable thing to do. As for your silly comments about animalsI have never met an intentionally cruel or malicious animal. Those traits seem to be reserved for humans. Carnivores NEED meat to live humans do not. I have yet to see any animal commit any of the atrocities committed by humans and captured on PETA video. If you have I would love to see the video. Otherwise your comments are nonsense.

  • Kurt K says:

    That is not up to me. My goal in life is to raise a family protect them and provide for them. I don’t know if animals have souls or not if they do I guess I will have some answering to do. I don’t believe they do so I think I’m in good shape. No I don’t want people to die human life is precious and worth preserving. You think animals life and human life are equal. Which brings me to a question. If a human and an animal were both in harms way and in danger of dieing who would you help if you had to choose bt them? If killing is wrong and humans are going to hell because we kill animals. I guess we will have a lot of animals in hell to keep up company. Crocidilians all cats dogs snakes chimpanzees bears sharks etc. I guess they are going to hell because they sure kill other animals in a pretty violent way. Tell me their prey doesn’t suffer as they are being eaten alive. What is your thoughts on that? Why are humans the only ones getting crap for killing nobody minds animals killing animals. Why do they get a pass? I guess to answer your question I don’t believe animals have souls because of my Catholic beliefs. We have 7 sacraments that we are suppose to fulfill in our lives. Those sacraments were set forth so we could build a close relation with God. Animals do none of these they can’t ask for forgiveness they don’t pray or have an understanding of the afterlife. For these reasons alone I don’t beleive they have souls. Why do you think they do?

  • Antigone1000 says:

    Kurt K I asked you firsthow do you know they do not? As such a humanitarian you should want people to be killed so they can live with God in Heaven in a constant state of bliss. Why would you not want that??

  • Antigone1000 says:

    Kurt K First of all prove to me that animals have no souls. Secondlyyour argument is ridiculous. If you believe your argument then you must have been ecstatic at the deaths on 911. Surely those people made it to Heaven especially as they were killed in accordance with religious beliefs. Why don’t you send cards to all their surviving relatives telling them how joyful they should be?

  • Kurt K says:

    They probably wouldn’t. But then again they don’t know what they hell they would be choosing. I guess if all animals have souls then wouldn’t they be in a better place if they get killed. As animal lover you should want all these animals to be killed so they live with God in heaven and be in a constant state of bliss. You never thought about it that way did you? I win!

  • Antigone1000 says:

    KurtK I think it’s a safe bet that if given the choice most animals would opt not to partake of the slaughterhouse experience…..

  • Kurt K says:

    Michele I see now how you feel. I should end my life right now just because I don’t agree with what it is you are fighting for. All the issues that you mentioned in your post where horible and the world is better now that they are fixed. I will agree with you on that. However they all share one important thing in common they involved men and women suffering. Not animals! Are we going to have a war on the animal issue are we going to have viloent protests in the streets over the animal issue. Is one persons life worth losing to save an animals life? 500000 thousand people died to end slavery. Many more died in the civil rights fight. I don’t think people are going to fight that hard for animals unless you are willing to go that far. You say you speak for the voiceless. How do you know what the voiceless want? How do you know they want you to speak on their behalf? Isn’t it arogant to think you know what is best for another being? If animals knew what was going on they would fight back. They would communicate with each other and orgainize. They don’t because they can’t they can’t because they don’t know any better. Thats just the way it is!

  • Antigone1000 says:

    KurtK Your comment reveals your lack of understanding of what an “inherent” value is. An inherent value is the value that a being has in his own existence apart from any value attributed to that being by another being. Your belief that an animal is valuable for food is not an inherent value. I understand how things are but I look toward what they can be.

  • Michele says:

    Kurt you are so wrong. The changes may not happen in my lifetime or yours but they will happen. Your comments echo what people used to say about issues like abolishing slavery women being allowed to vote and the fight for civil rights in the United States. More and more people are being “convinced” all the time regarding vegetarianism sometimes it is more for health or environmental reasons but because there is easy access to information everywhere these people will also eventually realize how they are helping animals at the same time. People are more and more aware of racism sexism and ageism and they WILL in time learn about speciesism. “That’s just the way it is” is such a lame comment I can’t believe it whenever I see it on these blogs. The apathy that you and others express makes me wonder how you can accomplish anything in life. You might as well just end your life right now with that attitude Let’s not bother fighting for stricter sentences for child abusers let’s not bother trying to keep parks and other green spaces free from litter let’s not try to ease the suffering for people with terminal illnesses let’s not care if the government raises taxes and if politicians engage in corrupt behaviour. Antigone I have very much enjoyed your numerous posts on this topic and elsewhere on the PETAfiles! Keep it up!

  • Kurt K says:

    No shit everything has an inherent value. All creatures have an inherent value I never disagreed with that. We just disagree on what kind of value animals have. I think they are valuable for food you think they are valuable for… I don’t beleive animals and Man have the same value at all. You do and I respect that but you don’t respect anybody that has a different opinion! In your world you think that you are right and I am wrong. If you want to save the animals go ahead and try your not going to convince nearly enough people to stop buying selling eating and raising animals for consumption. I’m sorry but this is just the way it is!

  • Antigone1000 says:

    Kurt K Anyone who would work in a slaughterhouse absolutely has a high level of tolerance for cruelty because even if they do not engage in it they witness it and do nothing. Normal people could not tolerate that. You can disagree all you want about animals and people but they are either equal as far as having an inherent value or they are not no matter what your opinion. Look at slavery. Blacks ALWAYS had an inherent value that made slavery wrong even when society refused to acknowledge it. Blacks didn’t suddenly gain an inherent value when whites recognized it. Your opinion is not determinative.

  • Kurt K says:

    Antigone What is right to you and what is right to me seem to differ on most issues. I have my opinion of what is right and you have yours. I see nothing wrong with slaughtering animals for food you think it is immoral. You think animals and humans are equal I disagree. Don’t accuse me of being blind to my own reality. I understand what you are saying I understand what you are trying to do. I just don’t agree with you and I firmly believe that chickens cows pigs etc. are here for agricultural purposes and one of them happens to be slaughter. I understand that you believe that killing animals is cruel and abusive. Lets be real here it isn’t suppose to be a pleasant thing to look at and I don’t think you can make it that much better. Don’t get me wrong I think if a worker is caught abusing an animal he should be punished. But I don’t belive every person that works in these places are there because they enjoy killing animals. They probably get paid well and are able to support their families you can’t blame a person for that. I believe that these undercover videos are not a total representation of the meat industry. There are always a few bad apples in the bunch but you can’t take away from the whole becasue of a few isolated instances.

Connect With PETA

Subscribe