TRANSCRIPTIONS OF SCENES 11, 19, AND 24

Scene 11 (December 12, 2001): Conversation With Mike During Euthanasia of Mice Found in Dead-Animal Cooler

K: “I mean, since clearly a lot of people don’t check for their pulse, is there anything to do about that? I mean because that’s bad, but five, that’s like …”

Mike: “Oh, I … I went in there, and a rat jumped up on my arm. I thought he was … I was putting some animals in this box and a rat jumped up on my arm. I’ve been in there, and a whole slew of rats was alive. People not paying attention to what they are doing … they do this, cut it off, throw them in the bag … they ain’t dead, they’re knocked out … that’s why I tell everybody.”

K: “But can we do anything about that in terms to get people to actually check for pulse, what have you?”

Mike: “It’s hard to. Some people does, but it’s hard to.”

Scene 19 (January 28, 2002): Conversation With Jian Zou, a Researcher From Crews Lab, Who Is Cutting the Heads off Young Rats Without Putting Them on Ice, as Required.

Jian: “Normally, we have to, I mean, uh, acceptable anesthesia, we have to put it in ice.”

K: “Oh, OK.”

Jian: “Let it sleep.”

K: “Oh so they, it kind of numbs them?”

Jian: “Right. Because we applied for this protocol, they were animal rights, you know, (unintelligible) … normally this will affect the cells survive.”

K: “Oh, OK. So is the … the alcohol does that to them?”

Jian: “No, but I just rather cut them. … I don’t put them in the sleep for three to several minutes (unintelligible). Maybe it’s not illegal (unintelligible).”

K: “Oh, no, it’s interesting.”

Jian: “I need a brain quickly.”

K: “Wow, and his body still wiggles that much?”

Jian: “Yeah … for a while. It take a couple of minutes.”

K: “So you’re taking the brain?”

Jian: “Yeah. I am taking the brain. I need it quickly, that’s why.”

K: “Wow, he still wiggles a lot, doesn’t he? But there’s no feeling there?”

Jian: “No, I don’t think so (unintelligible).”

K: “Wow, so tiny.”

Jian: “Yeah.”

K: “So that just kind of preserves it, I guess.”

Jian: “Yeah (unintelligible) survive.”

K: “Wow, he still wiggles—that’s wild. … So you’re saying that there is some people who are questioning just this whole procedure?”

Jian: “When we write down the procedure, we have to write down, ‘Put the animal in the ice for four minutes.’”

K: “Oh, because that’s what you are supposed to do?”

Jian: “Yeah, that animal sleep, and then cut the head and animal won’t be any pain. But this young animal. Because the committee know, they want to check this detail procedure.”

K: “I see, and they don’t like that you don’t use the ice, I guess?”

Jian: “We put beside use ice, we write, ‘Cut (unintelligible),’ they won’t approve it.”

K: “OK.”

Jian: “They said, ‘Oh, it’s not humane.’”

K: “I see. But as long as you say that you did it, it won’t matter.”

Jian: “Yeah, we did it, won’t matter.”

K: “Do you just, do you prefer just not to use the ice?”

Jian: “Yeah … I prefer not using ice.”

K: “Is it just because it takes longer?”

Jian: “Because longer, or it will affect the brain—who knows? —you know.”

K: “Oh, I see.”

Jian: “Because we are doing a culture. The committee, you know, they don’t, they don’t care you know results, you know? They only care how you do the animal part.”

K: “Right.”

Jian: “From our point, we need to get better results. So I keep brain fresh.”

Scene 24 (February 16, 2002): Conversation With Supervisor After PETA’s Investigator Had Made Complaints to the IACUC

Mike: “I am going to tell you another thing—all this ain’t going to get resolved.”

K: “See, that’s how I feel, there’s … nothing’s going to change.”

Mike: “This battle been going on for a long time. This is just a little dirt that’s kicking up from the surface. Been through this before, IACUC been in here before.”

K: “Really? With the same type of situation?”

Mike: “Similar.”

K: “And nothing was ever resolved?”

Mike: “You put up a screen to look good for a while, and then, but at the same time, give it a month, it goes right back to the same thing.”

K: “I guess that’s how I feel is that in this type of setup, with this many animals and this many people using the animals and, you know, at least on our end so little help, because, you know, the job stinks, and there’s no pay—it’s not gonna get better.”

Mike: “Sheila, the (unintelligible) technician, doing the same thing you’re doing. They’ve been here so much longer, they just mark it, tell the vet tech, and keep going.”

K: “Right, and it doesn’t bother them.”

Mike: “Because they have seen it too much, and they went through the same battle that you are trying to battle.”

K: “I see. That’s how I feel, like everybody is just demoralized, so …”

Mike: “So they just, they just … I am sick of it. They do what they supposed to do, put the green card, they notify the people, and they keep going. Investigator come right down, look in there, see the green cards and so forth, see their animal. Technician, vet tech look. Who’s talking, who’s resolving these matters?”

K: “Yeah. So what, who, who is the problem, you think? Like what’s the source?”

Mike: “It’s a circle. It’s a circle. Everyone has to take some blame. Everyone has to take some blame because everyone is responsible. So we all responsible. Whether we want to take the blame or not, we all responsible.”